God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW. I don't put you on the same level as Foxjazz, because you aren't telling people that they are stupid or dishonest because their beliefs differ with yours.

Foxjazz just proves if you go far enough to one extreme you eventually wrap around and start behaving like the people at the other extreme.

Did you know that Darth Vader was really Lukes Dad.

Did you know that Vladimir Harkonen was Paul Atriedes Grandfather?

Did you know that Vladimir Harkonen was Paul Atriedes Grandfather?

Ah yes, Dune. Venturing further into obscure sci-fi now are we? Careful, the atheists will surely point out how nonbelievers can easily equate the bible with sci-fi or fairy tales. We don't really need to go there again.

"Careful, the atheists will surely point out how nonbelievers can easily equate the bible with sci-fi or fairy tales."

But that would be no coincidence, given that there is much in sci-fi that was inspired by the Bible.

I am persuaded in whom I believe and am waiting for the day...when it comes...boy will you be surprised!! But as for me .... I'm going to be ready

God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW

We’ll certainly know when we get Home, that’s for sure. I’ve learned that it’s possible to know even while we’re still on earth. (That’s said at the risk of sounding arrogant or utterly misguided, to others. But I don’t care anymore. This is just my point of view.) This ‘knowledge’ is like a similar sphere of knowledge to someone who might know that their own mother loves them. Although it’s not exactly the same, but that can illustrate the principle roughly. Even though this kind of thing can’t be proved in a scientific way, it is true that a spiritual bond - or spiritual reality - can have enough substance and truth to be ‘known’ by a person.

Regarding the existence of Heaven, which is the spirit world – the Real World - it is true that some things are secret for a reason. God obviously thought it wiser for His children to embark on a journey in order for us to search and discover Truth - and for our spirits to unfold like flowers - rather than to ‘wake up in the castle’, so to speak. The more our bud opens, the more we become aware – intuitively, spiritually and psychically – until we can actually know the Truth, or can at least attain much larger glimpses of it than can our five mortal senses.

There’s an all wise and beneficent purpose for this veil that prevents us from knowing the whole truth. It has something to do with promoting optimum spiritual advancement and muscle-building. From the perspective of the other side, where we can see clearly the bigger picture and all of life’s purposes – and all the lessons that need to be learned – it’s difficult to understand what all this fuss is about, i.e. it’s difficult to understand concepts like “doubt”, “struggle”, or “argument”. But as soon as we get down here, we can better understand.

Once we’ve experienced enough incarnations, however, and our flower has blossomed, and we’ve learned all the lessons we need, we’ll move on to other adventures in higher planes of existence. Ultimately, at the end of all our adventures we will surrender all and become One with God. (This principle of Oneness was taught by Jesus as well as the Budda, incidentally - John 17.23.) Buddhists might call this state of completion and oneness “Nirvana”. I agree with that. I also think it might be “the end of days”, for by then God will have experienced and garnered a great abundance of love and wisdom indeed. Moreoever, a greater good will have arisen because of all the crap and negativity than we had experienced, rather than in spite of it.

Knowing is a dangerous thing, believing is superior in terms of morality. If you "know", then not even God can persuade you otherwise. If you believe, you're able to be led if what you believe ends up being wrong.

A lot of people just KNEW that it was right to burn witches at the stake, because the Bible says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". The bible hasn't changed, and we don't believe that. Sometimes "knowing", especially in terms of a book that can be interpreted in such a varied way, can be very dangerous.

Suicide bombers "know" they are going to their harem when they blow themselves up. If they "believed", I doubt they'd be so quick to do it.

Suicide bombers "know" they are going to their harem when they blow themselves up. If they "believed", I doubt they'd be so quick to do it.

I appreciate what you're saying, BakerStreet. It is true that we all have our model of the world. A lot of people might say they "know" what is right, from within the context of their point of view, yet another might say that they "know" that such a point of view is wrong. I think all we can do is find peace with our own model of the world, and if we possess a bedrock conviction or a 'knowledge' of somekind, then we can have own own private confidence that some people's models of the world are more aligned with 'what is so' than others, and we can keep an open mind to boot.

My previous post was speaking more in terms of a 'broad stroke', in the sense that from my own point of view I 'know' that God exists; that another world (Heaven) awaits us beyond the veil of death, and that re-incarnation is true. I'm confident that this is Truth (due to something I can only describe as "more-than-intuition"), but I appreciate that others will say that I'm wrong. All to their own. We can still get along.

hey if we're going into prophecy....I've got lots to say. But I'll spare you....for now......who knows maybe there's a blog near you sometime that will get into this.......stay tuned!!!

"I think all we can do is find peace with our own model of the world, and if we possess a bedrock conviction or a 'knowledge' of somekind, then we can have own own private confidence that some people's models of the world are more aligned with 'what is so' than others, and we can keep an open mind to boot."

I think that kind of knowledge is fine, so long as we understand that the Pharisees had their book, and their dogma, and they 'knew' they were doing the right thing when they hung Jesus on the cross. It takes a bit of humlity to say that you are open to the idea that you might be very, very wrong, and grant that what we know can get us into as much or more trouble than constantly questioning the validity and purity of our beliefs.

Churches love to promote "knowing" because, as Foxjazz likes to point out, the last thing they want is for the people to differ with them. In terms of your soul, though, I can't see how it is beneficial to "know" much of anything. If you "know", then there is very, very little room for faith.

Truth can be tried over and over and weather it. "Knowing" usually spells an end to that kind of trial and self-reflection.

Churches love to promote "knowing" because, as Foxjazz likes to point out, the last thing they want is for the people to differ with them. In terms of your soul, though, I can't see how it is beneficial to "know" much of anything. If you "know", then there is very, very little room for faith.

yeah. What's that line? Belief ends where knowledge begins? if you know something is true, there's no need for faith or doubt.

Educate me then. Why is my POV incorrect when I liken Christians (the fundamentalist kind, not the "say they are" kind) to muslim extremists?
When I say enemy, I mean religion (real religion not fake religion). You can say " I believe" and just be lying, both to yourself and to the one your saying it to. However those people that blow themselves up believing they are doing it for God, are not fake. They actually do become dead because of their religion.

Why is this POV incorrect exacly, and please elaborate. And if you say "Well christians don't blow themselves up", let me remind you of the crimes that they did do.

Go ahead, please tell me why my POV is incorrect:

Truth can be tried over and over and weather it. "Knowing" usually spells an end to that kind of trial and self-reflection.

That’s right. To truly embrace the spiritual life, i.e. to actually walk it, rather than just talk it, can be a science all of its own to the individual. I believe that it’s possible for a person to reach a stage on their path when they’ve tried and tested their principles and beliefs to such a degree that the fruits that have been reaped – primarily within, but also often in their outer life as a natural by-product, (even though, ironically, such worldly fruits and success aren’t of importance to an enlightened soul), this, backed by an acute intuition, can be proof enough for the individual that their own convictions and beliefs are true.

I believe that it’s within the human potential to rise above faith and doubt. The first stage involves getting in touch with inner-intuition, and then, over time, (which may take many lifetimes), psychic faculties eventually bloom, which is an acute form of spiritual awareness.

It takes a bit of humlity to say that you are open to the idea that you might be very, very wrong,

I agree with that. I'm open minded, and I accept the possibility that I might be wrong. I also accept the possibility that I might be wrong regarding my assumptions that the world is round. I haven't seen the earth from outer space with my own eyes. But I trust my own judgement and awareness, based on other sources of information, and until my awareness runs into contrary information, which holds substance, I'd be a fool to conclude otherwise. A similar principle applies to my belief in God, just on another level.

the Pharisees had their book, and their dogma, and they 'knew' they were doing the right thing when they hung Jesus on the cross

I think they were doing the right thing, in the sense that Jesus’ crucifixion had great significance, and was all part of the Master Plan in the first place. But this principle is also very subjective.

Regarding this issue of subjectivity, I believe that “God is Spirit”, which means that the ultimate dimension of reality – and the intrinsic nature of Reality itself, at its deepest level - is Spirit, which itself is inherently subjective.

If God exists and we are spiritual beings, then by definition, we should expect our assumptions about life to be very subjective indeed. “Enlightenment” would be a case of aligning our consciousness with the Spirit of God, who possesses all wisdom and all-knowledge, and gaining better insights into the purpose of life and our place in the bigger picture.

People of all religions do bad things, Foxjazz. What does that have to do with demanding pearls appear in your coffee? Are we shifting gears to avoid the fact your premis here is meaningless?

You can lay a lot of wrongs at the feet of Christians, sure. How many can you find that believe killing women and children is the duty of a Christian, and it will gain them entrance into heaven? If you want to compare modern fundamentalist Islam to middle ages Christianity, fine, but admit that when you do so you are giving Islam a 1000 year handicap.

And before you start in on Hitler being a Christian, he and those who committed the atrocities of the Nazi party weren't Christians. Hitler courted many people getting into power, even people of many religions, but he said that you couldn't be a good Christian and a good German at the same time. Members of the SS were expected to adopt their pagan worship and reject Christianity.

You'll find that people who do these things do so in the BREACH of Christian principles, not in observance of them. For that reason it is difficult to lay the blame on the religion itself. If you want to talk about Atheism, we could discuss the 100 million or more people murdered at the hands of the adamantly Atheist regimes of the Soviet Union and China, where religion was repressed and scientific 'logic' was supposed to make the world a better place.

AndyBaker: I think the disconnect that many people have with my way of thinking is they rule out God's guidance in our every day life. It troubles me that if Jesus were to come for a visit, most Christians would be the first to deny Him because His appearance wouldn't jive with the way they think things are going to happen. They'd have him labeled that anti-christ before supper.

There has to be room for God to be the one who is perfect. I think you and I agree for the most part. I have a lot more tangible belief than I seem to, but I insist that it remain 'belief' out of respect for my own limited understanding and the complexity of a being that could be considered a perfect God. For me to assume I have it all wrapped up is to inflate my own understanding and vastly underestimate what God must be.

BakerStreet, it troubles me that you actually you have some insight into what you think God might be.
You don't. Religion is one of the greatest sources of oppression our citizens have in this life.
It is in its nature that it is extistential. And just because the Evil mostly happened in the past, doesn't negate the possiblity that it will also be a problem in the future.

Your God is just a figment of your imagination, with no real affect in the world we live.
That is why my pearls work, it teaches you that your imaginary God still doesn't do anything. And will not do anything ever, simply because of non existance.

Oh and by the way, south park says its the Mormons that is the true religion. Everyone else goes to hell, directly.