the mere belief that states "God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam.

"If you can convince people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and keeps count of the good things and bad things, you can convince them of anything." - George Carlin

"There's a sucker born every minute." - P.T. Barnum.

I can certainly appreciate the appeal of believing that someone is always watching out for you. Someone up there is loving you and will provide you with a wonderful afterlife. I don't see any downside to that.

Aren't you too old to believe in fairy tales?

God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam.

The bible says it, but that doesn't really prove anything. Anyone could have written a book and put the word "holy" in the title knowing it would help it sell a lot of copies.

Aren't you too old to believe in fairy tales?

Where does your venom come from? BTW, I didn't say I believe those things. I said I can see the appeal of believing them. It doesn't require a fairy tale to believe that something we don't understand created something out of nothing. I just happen to call that creator God.

“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.”
-- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

“When I look up at the starry heavens at night and reflect upon what it is that I really see there, I am constrained to say,
‘There is no God.’ It is not the works of some God that I see there. … I see no lineaments of personality, no human
traits, but an energy upon whose currents solar systems are but bubbles.”
-- John Burroughs, 19th century American naturalist


“The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence. Science is simply common sense at its
best—that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
-- Thomas Huxley, 19th century biologist

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
-- Aldous Huxley, early 20th century author and grandson of Thomas Huxley

“When two men of science disagree, they do not invoke the secular arm; they wait for further evidence to decide the
issue, because, as men of science, they know that neither is infallible. But when two theologians differ, since there is no
criteria to which either can appeal, there is nothing for it but mutual hatred and an open or covert appeal to force.”
-- Bertrand Russell, 20th century English mathematician and Nobel-prize-winner in literature

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”
-- Benjamin Franklin, American revolutionary, statesman and inventor

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated
statements of Christian dogma.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth President of the United States

“To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like
Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which
is one of the foundations of American life.”
-- Theodore Roosevelt, twenty-sixth President of the United States

“I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I
cannot subscribe.”
-- William H. Taft, twenty-seventh President of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice (1921 to 1930)

“The lessons of religious toleration—a toleration which recognizes complete liberty of human thought, liberty of
conscience—is one which, by precept and example, must be inculcated in the hearts and minds of all Americans if the
institutions of our democracy are to be maintained and perpetuated.”
-- Franklin Roosevelt, thirty-second President of the United States

“I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”
-- Mark Twain, 19th century author, humorist, and satirist

“If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.”
-- Carl Sagan



“Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly
in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of
a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787.]

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you
dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
-- Stephen F. Roberts, Atheist activist

LOL, last feeble effort of a dying argument.

Ask yourself, Foxjazz, what makes you want to come to the religion section, a section totally alien to your beliefs, to peddle your philosophy. Then ask yourself how similar your attitude is to the very religious people you seem to dispise.

“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.” -- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

Let us just take the first, for like the rest of the quotes, they all share a common theme.  They are statements of belief of men, who have yet to be proved right.  Hardly a convincing argument for atheism.

FoxJazz:

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE

I keep hearing this from people of science, but only in regards to religion. Scientific method includes something called "Rule outs" right? When you test anything you are proving what it is through a series of "proving negatives". When I did ambulance work, I would diagnose through proving negatives. When a lab tech is analyzing a substance to find what it is made of, they learn what substance or substances the sample is through proving negatives.

When Thomas Edison invented the incandescent light bulb, how many times did he fail? What was his famous quote? Wasn't that a process of proving a negative 200+ times before he "proved positive"?

I'm not saying that all scientific processes include proving negatives, but as long as "rule outs" are part of scientific method, then "proving a negative" will not only be possible, but a big part of it.

Not really the same thing, Para. When you rule out an illness, you are only ruling it out at the moment you test, and only within the person you test, and only within the accuracy of the test. You aren't ruling out the total existence of the illness, just that this one person, in this one moment, doesn't fail the test within the margin of error.

The problem of science is the human tendency for absolutes. You hear it all the time. We want to define things and then walk off from them, but our attempts to are usually foiled the next week when our technology allows us to get more data. Just look how physics has changed in the last 100 years.

I don't have a problem with Foxjazz believing there is no God. On the other hand he seems to think it is his duty to stop other people from believing in God. In that light, it's his responsibility to prove his assertion, and the article above is just and idiotic way to do it. HIs assertion requires him to prove that God doesn't exist, and without omniscience, there's no way to do that.

Not really the same thing, Para.

I was going to respond, but Baker did.

I just happen to call that creator God.

BTW....did you know the creator God, Elohim, of the OT is Jesus of the NT?

I didn't know the same guy that wrote the Old testament wrote the new testament.
It seems to me that they were written over a 100 years apart. Go figure. They musta really been written near the same time if that were true.

The OT is kinda boring, all those begats. Too much incest for my blood.

Did you know that Darth Vader was really Lukes Dad. Damb, I thought he was just some evil kook. Kinda reminds me of some Christians I know.
Know your enemy.

Anyone that does religion is most likely either insane, or a good liar.

BTW....did you know the creator God, Elohim, of the OT is Jesus of the NT?

So?

Baker, I second that emotion

Foxjazz, I appreciated the "did you know Darth Vadar is Luke Skywalker's father?" bit but I can't fathom why you are so antichristian. And boy howdy, if you are calling them your enemy, insane or liars, than you are indeed an antichristian.

The problem is people, on either side, get so persuaded by their subjective, unprovable beliefs that they think anyone who differs with them must be evil, blind, or stupid. Instead of being "better" than Christians, Foxjazz has just proved that intolerant, undisciplined minds can be just has hateful and ignorant no matter what flavor of philosophy they espouse.

Hey,

I think I resemble that!!! Please don't put me on the same tier as Fox.....but you're right about one thing Baker....I am persuaded in whom I believe and am waiting for the day...when it comes...boy will you be surprised!! But as for me.... I'm going to be ready.