Interesting theory.  I guess it works for those who are so self involved with materialism that they cannot see anything else of worth in their life.

An easy way to become an atheist?

Apparently look at the order of the universe as evidence of its randomness. ;~D

Thanks a lot, I choked on those #$*! things this morning.

Dr. Dim-Bulb >> it would work with anything, not just pearls. You could pray to find anything in your cup of coffee that shouldn't normally be there, regardless of material worth. You could pray to see angels dancing on the head of a pin. It's not a bad idea, fox, but god already has his tracks covered with this one. The Bible is all about people asking for signs, and sometimes they get them, and sometimes god says "You will not receive a sign, you must have faith." Of course, I don't believe in god to start with.

I can think of an easier way to become an atheist.

Read Peter Gomes' book called "The Good Book."

Myrrander... I know that is what it says, but is that what people actually do after going through the effort of the exorcise.
I think people would become as religiously benign as atheist if they do this and are commited to it.

And yes Dr Guy, you could pray that sand is in your cup, but if you told someone, someone might just put sand in your cup. That is why it is more reasonable to make it something of value. (I mean if God can giveth, God can taketh away) I never said you could keep the damb pearls. Jees.

But of course, this hasn't been proven, but it is a real possibilty.

Regards,
Fox

Ha this kinda reminds me of how I pass the potato chip rack. I say, "ok if I don't see kettle cooked salt and vinegar chips by the time I count to 3, then I will not get them.

So I count...."one one thousand, two one thousand, threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee one thousandddddddddddddddddddddd."

Ah ha. See I was meant to get them all along!

The easiest way to becoming an athiest? Close your eyes and don't think....LOL.....

I think it's harder not to see God than to see him. His fingerprints are all over the place.

Is it a matter of "can not see God" or is it "will not see God?" Big Difference.

Again, the definition of the word "atheist" seems to evade foxjazz. I think he means 'non-Christian', and that really doesn't even jive with the test above, since I know of no Christian that expects God to be an ATM machine. For his current theory to work ALL religions that have a belief in God must also believe that God is required to answer any and all prayers no matter now greedy or menial.

He matches his small-minded definition of atheism to his small-minded view of religion. In reality, both are a lot more complex than he seems to be able to comprehend. His continual need to misrepresent a belief in God tells me he isn't able to debate the concept without imposing a made-up standard to it.

He wants 'faith' to fight with both hands tied behind its back while he gives his own belief system an extra arm or two. And this is the person who keeps lauding integrity and pretending that knowledge will set you free of religion. His own lack of knowledge concerning the myraid of religions and doctrines speaks volumes.

And yes Dr Guy, you could pray that sand is in your cup, but if you told someone, someone might just put sand in your cup. That is why it is more reasonable to make it something of value. (I mean if God can giveth, God can taketh away) I never said you could keep the damb pearls. Jees.

It has nothing to do with keeping the thing.  It has everything to do with praying for materialistic things vs non-materialistic things.  Praying for someone's good health may not make it happen, but it shows a selflessness whereas praying for pearls shows only a selfishness.  To pray for things indicates a lack of concern for the world around you, and a degree of self absorbtion.

Christians can pray for things (but then they are probably CINOs anyway).  However, a crises of faith could also occur by praying for someone else and it not happening.

Actually Dr Guy, in order for you to make any value out of the "materialistic thing" is that you would have to keep it.
And it doesn't have to be so materialistic. How about an answer to a lottery ticket. No one says that God wouldn't make you lose it on the way to claim your prize.

And it isn't selfish to want personal "proof" that God exists. Whether you get pearls or not. You just seem to keep missing the mark as they say.

The definition of Atheist for baker:
One who does NOT hold a belief in God.

It is not so difficult a concept. Only people that believe in the existence of God make it difficult.
Doesn't matter what God you don't hold a belief in.

Or are you saying you don't have to have a clear thought (definition) of God to posit a belief in the existence of one.
If so, it really becomes non-sensical, because your God doesn't have even a concept (or thought) to attribute.

So no matter what "totally improbable thing" you pray for that doesn't happen, it won't happen simply because it is improbable. And it won't happen simply because there is no outside force to facilitate it happening.

Like I said, try it. At the end of the 30 days, you will no longer believe enought to give a crap one way or the other, unless your FEAR overcomes you and your scared because of a benign fear you have about the God thingy in general.

Not only that, the mere belief that states "God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam. Its like most monetary scams out in the real world, where they send you a counterfit check for you to cash. And because you have the cash, you think the check is for real so you spend it, only to find out you have to pay it back. And you already gave the person that send you the check a $200 processing fee.

In otherwords until you see evidence, doubt has more integral value than belief.
I mean, look at the blown up suicide bombers that get virgins evertime they get blown up. Its quite obvious.

Regards,
Fox

Wrong, atheism is the belief that there is no God, not a lack of belief. An 'ism' is something that people adhere to as a system. If you had never heard of God, then you wouldn't be an 'atheist', you'd be ignorant of the decision in the first place.

In order to say you are an Atheist, you have reached a decision about the non-existance of God. Therefore you adhere to a belief just like anyone else. You believe that there won't be any pearls in the morning, and in that way you actually SHARE that belief with the religions you are trying to smear.

And you can dance around all you like, but you've just created a straw-man, not attacked religion here. I know of no religion that predicts that God will carry out the prayer you state above, not a single one out of thousands of different flavors of belief. If you have to make up fake situations to validate your beliefs, well, you must not be willing to really face them. lol

Wake up every morning and declare to the world there isn't a God. Do it for 50 years. In the end you'll have no more a handle on the truth than anyone else. You seek to lend credence to your subjective beliefs by tying them to objective truth when no such thing exists.

Why not be more specific. Define the thing you think I don't believe in. Please, that way I will know for sure that I don't believe in it.

I have a Christian friend that may be dying. He prays that the meds he takes will help him live. Is that a material thing he isn't suppose to pray for? I mean it is material that is being prayed on. Do you think that his prayer will have any affect whatsoever on the matterial (his meds)? And if so, in what capacity.

Fox

Actually Dr Guy, in order for you to make any value out of the "materialistic thing" is that you would have to keep it.

No, that you wish for them is the telling subject.  You could have wished for world peace.  You did not.  You wished for material things.  That is telling upon itself.

"Why not be more specific. Define the thing you think I don't believe in. Please, that way I will know for sure that I don't believe in it."

Nice turn-around, but the fact is you are trying to RE-DEFINE my beliefs with the circumstance above. You are saying one thing when I believe another. Worse, you are lumping every single religion with a belief in God in with (probably non-existant) people who would have the expectation you describe.

"I have a Christian friend that may be dying. He prays that the meds he takes will help him live. Is that a material thing he isn't suppose to pray for? I mean it is material that is being prayed on. Do you think that his prayer will have any affect whatsoever on the matterial (his meds)? And if so, in what capacity."

If you had the knowledge of Christian doctrine you claim to, you could answer that question yourself. You most certainly have no right to judge the religion until you can answer a fundamental question like that. That's your problem. You are tilting with windmills of your own making, like saying you hate pizza when what you really mean is you hate spaghetti.

An Atheist comes to the conclusion that there is not God with the no more physical evidence than the believer has for accepting God. So why do you point fingers at the believer? With the parameters you set, you can't prove your side either. So, physical evidence being equal, why should I believe you over the spiritual experiences I've had?